<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: From Helen to Hellenism: All You Need is Love</title>
	<atom:link href="http://the-word-well.com/all-you-need-is-love.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://the-word-well.com/all-you-need-is-love.html</link>
	<description>Inspiration by the Bucket</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 15 Jan 2014 04:51:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Diana Barshaw</title>
		<link>https://the-word-well.com/all-you-need-is-love.html/comment-page-1#comment-526</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana Barshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 08:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-word-well.com/tww/?p=471#comment-526</guid>
		<description>Here’s what David said:
“That’s why the continuing modern conflict over particular land, objects, and geography is so antithetical to the original spirit of the Abrahamic faiths. Homelands and territories are important to any nation, absolutely, but there comes a point where the nation’s values, ideals, and people matter more than any particular piece of earth. In other words, the Heavenly Jerusalem should not be confused with the actual physical city. As with everything else, you have to strike a balance between the two.”

In your opinion, what is the original spirit of the Abrahamic faiths?  
Perhaps your answer to that question would be something like what Hillel said, &quot;That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn”  Secular humanists look at the first part of the quote and forget about the second part, i.e. go and learn the Torah, but OK lets look at that first part.

What are the most hateful things that could happen to you?  Wouldn’t it be pretty high on you list of hateful if there was no nation that shared your values, ideals, and people?  Then you would be forced to be a guest in someone else’s nation with different values and ideals?  Would you be willing to fight for a ‘particular piece of earth’ where you could practice your ideals without worry that they would be made illegal?  Maybe that seems far fetched, but that was the situation for my people before we returned to Israel.  Even now there are an increasing number of so called enlightened western nations where kosher slaughter is illegal, soon it might be circumcision that is banned.  We only have the right to one really small ‘piece of earth’ where we can live as the masters of our fate.   

The amazing part of this story, and probably one of the reasons that we’ve been successful is that from the very beginning we’ve been willing to share and compromise.  We said yes to the Peel commission on partition in 1936, we said yes to partition in 1948, and still now we are willing to share the land.  Please understand, we’re willing to share this tiny land, but not to commit suicide.

So please don’t lecture us about making the land a fetish!  And please don’t lecture us about thinking more about land, objects, and geography than the ideals of our faith!  That lecture needs to go to some other group.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here’s what David said:<br />
“That’s why the continuing modern conflict over particular land, objects, and geography is so antithetical to the original spirit of the Abrahamic faiths. Homelands and territories are important to any nation, absolutely, but there comes a point where the nation’s values, ideals, and people matter more than any particular piece of earth. In other words, the Heavenly Jerusalem should not be confused with the actual physical city. As with everything else, you have to strike a balance between the two.”</p>
<p>In your opinion, what is the original spirit of the Abrahamic faiths?<br />
Perhaps your answer to that question would be something like what Hillel said, &#8220;That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn”  Secular humanists look at the first part of the quote and forget about the second part, i.e. go and learn the Torah, but OK lets look at that first part.</p>
<p>What are the most hateful things that could happen to you?  Wouldn’t it be pretty high on you list of hateful if there was no nation that shared your values, ideals, and people?  Then you would be forced to be a guest in someone else’s nation with different values and ideals?  Would you be willing to fight for a ‘particular piece of earth’ where you could practice your ideals without worry that they would be made illegal?  Maybe that seems far fetched, but that was the situation for my people before we returned to Israel.  Even now there are an increasing number of so called enlightened western nations where kosher slaughter is illegal, soon it might be circumcision that is banned.  We only have the right to one really small ‘piece of earth’ where we can live as the masters of our fate.   </p>
<p>The amazing part of this story, and probably one of the reasons that we’ve been successful is that from the very beginning we’ve been willing to share and compromise.  We said yes to the Peel commission on partition in 1936, we said yes to partition in 1948, and still now we are willing to share the land.  Please understand, we’re willing to share this tiny land, but not to commit suicide.</p>
<p>So please don’t lecture us about making the land a fetish!  And please don’t lecture us about thinking more about land, objects, and geography than the ideals of our faith!  That lecture needs to go to some other group.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>https://the-word-well.com/all-you-need-is-love.html/comment-page-1#comment-521</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 23:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-word-well.com/tww/?p=471#comment-521</guid>
		<description>Diana, the universal/particular philosophical distinction was used to highlight the historical context within which Judaism developed. Its monotheism stressed the timeless, spaceless universality of God more than most other ancient belief systems, and rejected the traditional particular representations of divinity (such as physical pagan idols). This sort of respect for the abstract ideal (whose values should guide us in our real, physical world) was largely inherited by Christianity and Islam, and became a key part of their international appeal. 

That’s why the continuing modern conflict over particular land, objects, and geography is so antithetical to the original spirit of the Abrahamic faiths. Homelands and territories are important to any nation, absolutely, but there comes a point where the nation’s values, ideals, and people matter more than any particular piece of earth. In other words, the Heavenly Jerusalem should not be confused with the actual physical city. As with everything else, you have to strike a balance between the two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Diana, the universal/particular philosophical distinction was used to highlight the historical context within which Judaism developed. Its monotheism stressed the timeless, spaceless universality of God more than most other ancient belief systems, and rejected the traditional particular representations of divinity (such as physical pagan idols). This sort of respect for the abstract ideal (whose values should guide us in our real, physical world) was largely inherited by Christianity and Islam, and became a key part of their international appeal. </p>
<p>That’s why the continuing modern conflict over particular land, objects, and geography is so antithetical to the original spirit of the Abrahamic faiths. Homelands and territories are important to any nation, absolutely, but there comes a point where the nation’s values, ideals, and people matter more than any particular piece of earth. In other words, the Heavenly Jerusalem should not be confused with the actual physical city. As with everything else, you have to strike a balance between the two.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Diana Barshaw</title>
		<link>https://the-word-well.com/all-you-need-is-love.html/comment-page-1#comment-518</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana Barshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 15:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-word-well.com/tww/?p=471#comment-518</guid>
		<description>I couldn&#039;t agree more, I don&#039;t want to name names right now so close to Shabbat, but there are most definitely those among us who worship idols no better than the golden calf, - worship rabbis, worship money, I think there are even some who put Kashrut before God.

On other matters there a few things that David said that make me fume. For example, 
&quot;Your faith’s triumph of timeless universals over rigid particulars&quot;, and &quot;the ritualization of memory&quot; (in a negative way) and &quot;fetishization of geography&quot; 
 Judaism is so much more complex. No NOT a triumph of universal over particular, instead an amazing mix of the two where BOTH are given importance.  And yes we do remember everything!  That is one of our secret weapons, that is one reason why we&#039;re still here. And as for the making a fetish of geography statement... Sara I wish you would write a blog about that one, because I can&#039;t adequately tear it to shreds in a comment.
Shabbat Shalom to everyone!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t agree more, I don&#8217;t want to name names right now so close to Shabbat, but there are most definitely those among us who worship idols no better than the golden calf, &#8211; worship rabbis, worship money, I think there are even some who put Kashrut before God.</p>
<p>On other matters there a few things that David said that make me fume. For example,<br />
&#8220;Your faith’s triumph of timeless universals over rigid particulars&#8221;, and &#8220;the ritualization of memory&#8221; (in a negative way) and &#8220;fetishization of geography&#8221;<br />
 Judaism is so much more complex. No NOT a triumph of universal over particular, instead an amazing mix of the two where BOTH are given importance.  And yes we do remember everything!  That is one of our secret weapons, that is one reason why we&#8217;re still here. And as for the making a fetish of geography statement&#8230; Sara I wish you would write a blog about that one, because I can&#8217;t adequately tear it to shreds in a comment.<br />
Shabbat Shalom to everyone!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Shoshanna</title>
		<link>https://the-word-well.com/all-you-need-is-love.html/comment-page-1#comment-517</link>
		<dc:creator>Shoshanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 13:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-word-well.com/tww/?p=471#comment-517</guid>
		<description>Thats why I wrote &quot;In all woship there must be rational thought, discourse and discretion. Ours is unique in that it demands it.&quot;

We live in extreme times and many do not follow the dictate to think- rather they follow blindly the false idolatry of ideals.

I live in an area with a large concentration of &#039;our people&#039; who worship their ideals and do not bother an iota with thought for people, consequences or rationale.

So yes, it holds to all. Each and every human being needs to balance thought, ideals and consequences of action within the context of reality -as it is- not as we want it to be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thats why I wrote &#8220;In all woship there must be rational thought, discourse and discretion. Ours is unique in that it demands it.&#8221;</p>
<p>We live in extreme times and many do not follow the dictate to think- rather they follow blindly the false idolatry of ideals.</p>
<p>I live in an area with a large concentration of &#8216;our people&#8217; who worship their ideals and do not bother an iota with thought for people, consequences or rationale.</p>
<p>So yes, it holds to all. Each and every human being needs to balance thought, ideals and consequences of action within the context of reality -as it is- not as we want it to be.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sara K. Eisen</title>
		<link>https://the-word-well.com/all-you-need-is-love.html/comment-page-1#comment-516</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara K. Eisen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 13:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-word-well.com/tww/?p=471#comment-516</guid>
		<description>I agree...Just make sure this sentiment goes both ways, and applies all around. Our people sometimes cross this line as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree&#8230;Just make sure this sentiment goes both ways, and applies all around. Our people sometimes cross this line as well.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Diana Barshaw</title>
		<link>https://the-word-well.com/all-you-need-is-love.html/comment-page-1#comment-515</link>
		<dc:creator>Diana Barshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 12:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-word-well.com/tww/?p=471#comment-515</guid>
		<description>I agree with Shoshanna!  Many &quot;ideals&quot; are the new idols.  Judaism&#039;s precept against idol worship is as relevant today as it ever was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Shoshanna!  Many &#8220;ideals&#8221; are the new idols.  Judaism&#8217;s precept against idol worship is as relevant today as it ever was.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Shoshanna</title>
		<link>https://the-word-well.com/all-you-need-is-love.html/comment-page-1#comment-514</link>
		<dc:creator>Shoshanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 12:20:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-word-well.com/tww/?p=471#comment-514</guid>
		<description>David-

Re: the historical shift from idols to ideals 

I think it hasn&#039;t necessary shifted so far. Many worship their ideals as blindly as they once worshipped their idols: to the extent that the &#039;ideals&#039; replace logic, thought and humanity.

Aside from the many historical examples of  communal worship of ideals over individuals- communism and Naszi&#039;im to name a few choice ones- Jihadism to name a current one, many individuals and groups worship their ideals without thinking or using context. 

So, you have wealthy American women from LA on a Flotilla to support Hamas which is an oppressive, sexist terrorist (to their own as well regime. There is no thought there.

In all woship there must be rational thought, discourse and discretion. Ours is unique in that it demands it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David-</p>
<p>Re: the historical shift from idols to ideals </p>
<p>I think it hasn&#8217;t necessary shifted so far. Many worship their ideals as blindly as they once worshipped their idols: to the extent that the &#8216;ideals&#8217; replace logic, thought and humanity.</p>
<p>Aside from the many historical examples of  communal worship of ideals over individuals- communism and Naszi&#8217;im to name a few choice ones- Jihadism to name a current one, many individuals and groups worship their ideals without thinking or using context. </p>
<p>So, you have wealthy American women from LA on a Flotilla to support Hamas which is an oppressive, sexist terrorist (to their own as well regime. There is no thought there.</p>
<p>In all woship there must be rational thought, discourse and discretion. Ours is unique in that it demands it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Sara K. Eisen</title>
		<link>https://the-word-well.com/all-you-need-is-love.html/comment-page-1#comment-510</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara K. Eisen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 14:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-word-well.com/tww/?p=471#comment-510</guid>
		<description>I like the turn of phrase: idols to ideals. Didn&#039;t so much like: fetishization of geography. But I can see why people think that. It&#039;s just that the majority of the world can not live in their heads like Western intellectuals can. They need houses. :) And generally, it matters to the average guy that said house is in a place where he has either a history or family or feels some sort of backward and forward reaching destiny. 

This Western concept of living anywhere with a clean slate and looking only forward is strange to billios of people, and I&#039;m not sure this self made man with no past thing is working out too well for the West, either. Time will tell. (Not that I&#039;m talking about any particular self made man with no past, mind you.)

I&#039;m with you all the way on the empathy thing.

I feel like we&#039;d have great arguments over coffee. Thanks for writing back!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the turn of phrase: idols to ideals. Didn&#8217;t so much like: fetishization of geography. But I can see why people think that. It&#8217;s just that the majority of the world can not live in their heads like Western intellectuals can. They need houses. <img src='https://the-word-well.com/tww/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  And generally, it matters to the average guy that said house is in a place where he has either a history or family or feels some sort of backward and forward reaching destiny. </p>
<p>This Western concept of living anywhere with a clean slate and looking only forward is strange to billios of people, and I&#8217;m not sure this self made man with no past thing is working out too well for the West, either. Time will tell. (Not that I&#8217;m talking about any particular self made man with no past, mind you.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m with you all the way on the empathy thing.</p>
<p>I feel like we&#8217;d have great arguments over coffee. Thanks for writing back!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>https://the-word-well.com/all-you-need-is-love.html/comment-page-1#comment-507</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jul 2010 13:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-word-well.com/tww/?p=471#comment-507</guid>
		<description>Hey Sara, happy anniversary- I appreciate the response, although my comment on your previous article was not strictly about “breaching the frontier of selfhood” but rather the need for occasional breathing space from one’s ethnic identity. Otherwise, there’s a danger of identifying so deeply with its narrative that one starts holding anachronistic personal grudges against Romans and Spaniards. This is an especially easy attitude to adopt within Israel, where the ritualization of memory makes historical time (and all its fears and foes) feel more contemporary than in most other countries. Needless to say, this can lead to a stifling atmosphere where Jews feel the entire world will always be ready to besiege them (aka Masada syndrome). 

Your article here touches all kinds of interesting issues, particularly the challenge of reconciling ethnic solidarity with global perspective. Culture, especially language and religion, is essentially a shared territory of meaning; the danger is when one forgets that their nation’s narrative is just a particular articulation of the greater universal “grammar” of human nature. That doesn’t mean ethnicity is irrelevant: contrary to your critical Hellenic title, Herodotus himself famously observed that, when asked to choose the best customs in the world, any individual would naturally select that of their own nation. But it is always important to not idolize identity to the point where it dulls empathy towards others. The golden mean, right? All right, enough with the Greeks. 

This appreciation of archetypes is especially relevant to Judaism, which contributed so heavily in the historical shift from idols to ideals dating all the way back to Ancient Egypt. Your faith’s triumph of timeless universals over rigid particulars makes the current political fetishization of geography seem even more petty. Whether it’s the Orthodox settlers illegally driving Arabs from their homes, or Helen Thomas suggesting that Israeli Jews leave theirs, these people are viewing the Other through a dehumanizing shorthand. If religion (and Jung) taught us anything, it’s to make the effort (and it can be an effort) of seeing the opposing party as human. 

Speaking of which, I have already been to Damascus and Ankara, limbs intact, and there’s pretty much the same ratio of goodwill and ignorance on the street there as in any major capitals. But, come on, you wouldn’t have to teach anyone in Syria about hospitality: when the locals invite you somewhere with “Ahlan wa sahlan”, they really mean it (and many will quietly admit they&#039;re as fed up with Assad as most of the outside world). The biggest obstacle to more empathy there is the acquiescence of governments to a hostile status quo over the real long-term stability the land deserves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Sara, happy anniversary- I appreciate the response, although my comment on your previous article was not strictly about “breaching the frontier of selfhood” but rather the need for occasional breathing space from one’s ethnic identity. Otherwise, there’s a danger of identifying so deeply with its narrative that one starts holding anachronistic personal grudges against Romans and Spaniards. This is an especially easy attitude to adopt within Israel, where the ritualization of memory makes historical time (and all its fears and foes) feel more contemporary than in most other countries. Needless to say, this can lead to a stifling atmosphere where Jews feel the entire world will always be ready to besiege them (aka Masada syndrome). </p>
<p>Your article here touches all kinds of interesting issues, particularly the challenge of reconciling ethnic solidarity with global perspective. Culture, especially language and religion, is essentially a shared territory of meaning; the danger is when one forgets that their nation’s narrative is just a particular articulation of the greater universal “grammar” of human nature. That doesn’t mean ethnicity is irrelevant: contrary to your critical Hellenic title, Herodotus himself famously observed that, when asked to choose the best customs in the world, any individual would naturally select that of their own nation. But it is always important to not idolize identity to the point where it dulls empathy towards others. The golden mean, right? All right, enough with the Greeks. </p>
<p>This appreciation of archetypes is especially relevant to Judaism, which contributed so heavily in the historical shift from idols to ideals dating all the way back to Ancient Egypt. Your faith’s triumph of timeless universals over rigid particulars makes the current political fetishization of geography seem even more petty. Whether it’s the Orthodox settlers illegally driving Arabs from their homes, or Helen Thomas suggesting that Israeli Jews leave theirs, these people are viewing the Other through a dehumanizing shorthand. If religion (and Jung) taught us anything, it’s to make the effort (and it can be an effort) of seeing the opposing party as human. </p>
<p>Speaking of which, I have already been to Damascus and Ankara, limbs intact, and there’s pretty much the same ratio of goodwill and ignorance on the street there as in any major capitals. But, come on, you wouldn’t have to teach anyone in Syria about hospitality: when the locals invite you somewhere with “Ahlan wa sahlan”, they really mean it (and many will quietly admit they&#8217;re as fed up with Assad as most of the outside world). The biggest obstacle to more empathy there is the acquiescence of governments to a hostile status quo over the real long-term stability the land deserves.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Francine Weistrop</title>
		<link>https://the-word-well.com/all-you-need-is-love.html/comment-page-1#comment-504</link>
		<dc:creator>Francine Weistrop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jun 2010 22:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://the-word-well.com/tww/?p=471#comment-504</guid>
		<description>I found your blog by accident, having received your letter to Helen from a friend (which, by the way, was the best one of many that I read in all of this Helen mishugas).
I am so very impressed with your clear thinking, your ability to express so well what most of us are thinking, and your clear devotion to k&#039;lal Yisrael.
I am looking forward to more such writing. I can always hope that no one will inspire you to write more of the same, but that is not a hope borne out by history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found your blog by accident, having received your letter to Helen from a friend (which, by the way, was the best one of many that I read in all of this Helen mishugas).<br />
I am so very impressed with your clear thinking, your ability to express so well what most of us are thinking, and your clear devotion to k&#8217;lal Yisrael.<br />
I am looking forward to more such writing. I can always hope that no one will inspire you to write more of the same, but that is not a hope borne out by history.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
